新华社专访姚明：有两种承担责任的办法 我都能接受
中文原文：
新华社杭州10月7日电 题：有两种承担责任的办法，我都能接受——专访中国篮协主席姚明
新华社记者王镜宇、林德韧、曹奕博、马锴
在2023年篮球世界杯赛中，中国男篮战绩不佳，连续第二次无缘奥运会。在杭州亚运会上，中国男篮未能实现卫冕的目标。中国篮协主席姚明6日晚接受了新华社记者的独家专访，对一些热点问题进行了回应。以下是采访实录：
记者（以下简称记）：这次亚运会，咱们的成绩是否达到了赛前预期？
姚明（以下简称姚）：很直白地说，没有达到。虽然不能完全拿上一届亚运会的成绩来对比，但是男篮的表现是没有达到我们预期的。我们面临着世界杯失利之后沮丧的心态，要快速调整过来有很多的难度。但是我们仍然希望在主场可以卫冕……现实就是现实，我们必须面对它。
记：那天输给菲律宾之后，你在现场站了很长时间，当时在想些什么？
姚：像我这样经历了30年的篮球，各种各样的输球都看见过。作为中国队的成员之一，输掉球你心情肯定是很沮丧的。作为领队的话，我想的是赶紧把队员送回休息室，他们是最重要的，因为后面还有比赛要打。
记：现在过去两天了，那场球到底输在哪里？
姚：因为不是教练，我不能去评价场上的东西。肯定是松懈了。这种松懈其实有两种体现方式，一种是松松垮垮的松懈，另外一种是想一口吃掉对手、打垮对方的，其实也是一种松懈的体现。这些队员对他们来说是非常沉重的一刻，希望对他们的将来是一次激励。
记：那天的发布会上，有记者问到失利是谁的责任，乔尔杰维奇马上说“是我”，而赵继伟说不应该一输球就怪教练，你怎么看待这个问题？
姚：输了球肯定是要有责任的，每一个环节都有，我们习惯于把这些责任找一个名气最大的来扛。其实每个环节里边都会有这样、那样的问题，但更重要的一个问题是以后谁再来往前推？我们应该怎么做？这是更重要的问题。
记：两次输给菲律宾队，是不是因为易建联退役之后我们缺乏关键时刻比较可靠的核心球员？
姚：如果要说核心球员的话，我觉得首先这次继伟做得非常不错。由于周鹏的受伤退出，他必须承担起作为一个老队员、作为一个队长要承担起的这些东西。包括今天的比赛，下半场实际上是他和其他几位老队员去带领大家走出来的。
任何一个团队里都会有核心，但是核心与核心之间是有差异的。我们差在什么地方？输菲律宾的两场比赛，如果仅就我来说，我们缺乏得分爆发力。我指的是单一球员的，像麦迪这样的球员，35秒13分，他能够在一个短时间内不断地出手，像机关枪一样把球送到篮筐里。这不仅仅需要技术上很成熟的训练，他在心理上要足够强大去支撑这些东西。这种球员需要有天生的得分手的习惯，我们在国家队这个层面现在是缺乏的。而且在我们的文化里边，你要经得住别人说你这个人“好独”。
记：从世界杯到亚运会，中国男篮的成绩都不理想，你如何评价乔尔杰维奇的能力和水平？
姚：我们需要一个和国际接轨的桥梁。这次亚运会我发现了一个很有意思的现象，萨沙（乔尔杰维奇）在两周的亚运村生活中，和很多的塞尔维亚教练认识了，交上朋友了——不同的运动，在不同的国家和地区（执教的教练）。我想说的是，塞尔维亚那么小的一个国家，有那么多的教练员——我们不评价他的水平高和低——在全世界被接受、被使用。从另一种角度来说，我们的教练员什么时候能走出去？
我有时候不由自主地在想，如果我没有去NBA，我只是留在上海队，最后在上海做一个教练员，我会是个什么样的人？
记：回过头看，为什么在离奥运资格赛还有一年不到的时间更换主教练、换掉杜锋指导？
姚：这个决定很艰难，但它也是由于客观条件。
记：什么样的客观条件？
姚：国家队主教练必须专职化。而我们在这里边也尊重了杜指导的选择。
记：乔尔杰维奇的合同什么时候到期？方便透露吗？
姚：我如果没记错，应该是到今年年底。我们当时要求的是他不能一个人来，他必须带一个小团队过来，同时我们会把中方的教练组配备给他。这是我们明确的一个要求，因为我们把乔帅看成一个连接世界的桥梁。之前杜指导、李楠指导的团队中都是有国际教练的，我们希望有这样的国际团队来帮我们去更快、更好地接触世界。我们知道整个世界篮球的进步速度和我们进步的速度，我们现在是跟不上的。所以我们还会去认真地评估这些东西（对乔尔杰维奇的评估），但是国际化的路线我们是必须要坚持的。
记：2019年世界杯之后，你曾经说要为失利承担责任。后来，有媒体的前辈说，在后面的几年里没有看到中国篮协的深入反思和总结。你怎么看待这件事？
姚：2019年到现在，我们和国际甚至和社会的接触都减少。确实像那位前辈所说的，我们做的事情非常少。我给你一个数据吧，仅就U系列（青少年）赛事来说，我们每年节省经费差不多有3000万，这不是个好事儿，是因为我们比赛没法办，而今年完全恢复了。另外一个数据，我们刚刚统计了亚运会前的U21、U19、U17和U15的这几个比赛，大概500多场。胜负的差距在21分以上的比赛占45%，胜负差距在5分之内的比赛只占11%。
记：缺乏竞争性？
姚：这需要一个过程来恢复它。确实像那位老前辈所说的，我们做的非常有限，我们需要快马加鞭。
记：中国男篮连续两届无缘奥运会，你觉得最重要的因素有哪些？
姚：首先是赛制的改变，使我们需要做一个系统性的改变，包括联赛的设置。
包括我们现在面对的对手跟以前不一样了，对吧？然后归化球员，我们这方面实际上是面临一定的局限性，有时候要考虑到我们文化的一种接受程度。我觉得我们其实已经非常幸运了，能够有李凯尔这样的队员有那么高的积极性愿意加入中国男篮……
我觉得在每一个环节上，如果简单的说就是国家队、联赛、青训——我说青训的时候其实包括了体教融合——我们一定要在每一个环节上充分地考虑和国际的交流。
记：作为中国篮协主席，你需要承担什么样的责任？
姚：我有两种办法可以承担责任。第一种承担过去的责任，辞职回家，上海离这反正也挺近的。第二种承担责任的办法，把这些东西积累下来，分析出来，设计出下一步的行动计划。两种办法我都能接受。
记：2028年奥运会，中国男篮能进吗？如何做出改变？
姚：我们不能放下2028年奥运会的可能性，但这条路不好走。我们要做一场大手术，这不是小修小改可以做到的。从国家队的组成，从联赛的改革，从整个青训包括国际化，包括体教融合，这是一个涵盖整个篮球社会的大手术，不仅仅是一个我们选择谁来当教练，我们怎么去给国家队提供更好的保障机制，或者说我们打造哪一种所谓的篮球风格。它是一个具体的和系统性的大改造。因为我们的调研刚刚开始进行，我不愿意那么草率地就说我们应该怎么做。
记：中国篮协主席这个位置的挑战，是不是跟你当初预想的有差异？
姚：有很大的差异。它对我来说是一个非常丰富的经历，我非常感谢它过去这几年中给我这样的机会去接触这样一个层面。原来我可能只是从一个片面的——不管是运动员还是俱乐部的角度——去看，仅仅是凭着一腔热血就冲进来了，但是真的觉得很多事它需要更理性地去思考。虽然也做了一些事，但更多的是大家看到的各种各样的失利……这里边都是有原因的，这些原因我要去认真地总结它，怎么能够使我们的社会动员能力、向心力变得更强，这是我需要去好好思考的。
记：中国女篮成功卫冕了。怎么延续这样的势头、为明年的巴黎奥运会更好地准备？
姚：女篮现在压力很大。竞技体育就是这样，当你不断赢球的时候，你的压力会不断积攒，大家都希望你取得更多的胜利，而且对你的期望值越来越高。在这个时候你要兼顾的东西就越来越多，而你会有兼顾不到的地方，而一个小小的裂缝可能造成整个堤坝都被冲毁。很多场上出现的问题，实际上在场下会提前体现出来。从协会管理者的角度来说，我们的工作就是不断地去敲敲打打，看看哪儿会有一些征兆出来，希望可以去预防它。
但是仅仅用预防的心态我觉得是不够的，因为竞技体育从国家队的成绩上来说，你必须往前冲，只有一条路。哪怕在你领先的时候你也是往前冲，其实男篮在这次亚运会的教训已经给我们留下了。当你停止去冲的时候，实际上就会被人赶上。
记：这是对菲律宾那场输球的很重要的原因？
姚：是的。你以为你冲刺了100米、领先了很多时候，你认为可以靠着一个缓冲的速度提前跑到终点的时候，实际上别人追上来了。这实际上是个非常深刻的教训。但是我们要尽可能地去找到这种苗头，提前预防，保持一个向上、向前的状态。
记：2002年釜山亚运会虽然输球仍然意气风发的你，和现在满脑门子官司的你，你更喜欢哪一个？
姚：完全不一样，你没法说更喜欢什么。其实有时候当事情刚刚发生的时候，肯定会心里边压力很大，多少会有。可能以前20岁出头的时候，得过一礼拜才会好，现在可能过一天就好，但是你没有办法否认那种状态是存在的。
关键是得走出来。实际上你可以把任何一个面临的挑战，不管是国家队的管理也好，还是联赛碰到各种各样的问题，想象成下一个奥尼尔对着你全力以赴地冲过来。
记：对于中国男篮和中国篮球的未来，你作为协会主席还有信心吗？
姚：我们的信心将来自我们的行动。空谈信心是不存在的，我可以很容易地去喊一句口号：我有信心。但是，关键我们做什么？我们的调研报告出来能不能形成一个大家有共识的东西？一个可执行的东西？这将带给我信心，也将带给大家信心，在这之前我没有办法回答这个问题。
英文译文
Hangzhou, Oct. 7 (Xinhua Question: There are two ways to take responsibility, I can accept both - an interview with Yao Ming, president of the Chinese Basketball Association
Xinhua News agency reporters Wang Jingyu, Lin Deren, Cao Yibo and Ma Kai
In the 2023 Basketball World Cup, China's men's basketball team has a poor record and missed the Olympic Games for the second consecutive time. China's men's basketball team failed to achieve its goal of defending its title at the Asian Games in Hangzhou. Yao Ming, president of the Chinese Basketball Association, gave an exclusive interview to Xinhua News Agency on Saturday evening and responded to some hot issues. The following is a transcript of the interview:
Reporter (hereinafter referred to as the record) : This Asian Games, our results have reached the pre-competition expectations?
Yao Ming (hereafter referred to as Yao) : Quite frankly, not reached. Although it can not completely take the results of the last Asian Games to compare, but the performance of the men's basketball team is not up to our expectations. We are faced with a depressed mentality after the World Cup defeat and it is difficult to adjust quickly. But we still want to defend our title at home... reality is reality and we have to face it.
Q: After losing to the Philippines that day, you stood there for a long time. What were you thinking?
Yao: I've been in basketball for 30 years and I've seen all kinds of losses. As a member of the Chinese team, you must be very depressed to lose the game. As a manager, I want to get the players back to the green room, they are the most important because there are games to be played.
Reporter: Now two days have passed, where exactly did you lose the game?
Yao: Because I'm not a coach, I can't judge what's on the court. Must have been lax. This kind of slack is actually reflected in two ways, one is slack, and the other is to eat the opponent and beat the other side, which is actually a reflection of slack. This is a very heavy moment for these players and hopefully it will be an inspiration for them for the future.
Reporter: At the press conference that day, a reporter asked who was responsible for the loss, Djordjevic immediately said "it is me", and Zhao Jiwei said that you should not blame the coach for a loss, what do you think of this issue?
Yao: Losing the game is definitely responsible, every link has, we are used to these responsibilities to find the most famous to carry. In fact, there will be such and such problems in each link, but the more important question is who will push forward in the future? What should we do? That's the more important question.
Reporter: Twice lost to the Philippines, is it because we lack more reliable core players at key moments after Yi Jianlian's retirement?
Yao: If you want to talk about the core players, I think first of all, Ji Wei has done a very good job. due to Zhou Peng's injury, he must bear these things as an old player and as a captain. including today's game, the second half was actually him and a few other senior players to lead everyone out.
There is a core in any team, but there is a difference between the core and the core. What are we missing? The two games we lost to the Philippines, if only for me, we lacked scoring explosion. I'm talking about a single player, a player like McGrady, 35 seconds and 13 minutes, who is able to take a lot of shots in a short period of time and get the ball to the basket like a machine gun. It's not just that he needs to be technically mature, he needs to be mentally strong enough to support these things. This kind of player needs to have the habit of being a natural scorer, which we lack at the national team level right now. And in our culture, you have to be able to stand being told that you're "so alone."
Reporter: From the World Cup to the Asian Games, the results of the Chinese men's basketball team are not ideal, how do you evaluate Djordjevic's ability and level?
Yao: We need a bridge to connect with the international community. This Asian Games I found a very interesting phenomenon, Sasha (Djordjevic) in the two weeks of the Asian Games village life, and a lot of Serbian coaches, made friends - different sports, in different countries and regions (coach). I want to say that Serbia is such a small country and there are so many coaches - we don't judge his level high or low - who are accepted and used all over the world. On the other hand, when are our coaches going to get out there?
I sometimes can't help but think, if I didn't go to the NBA, I just stayed in Shanghai and ended up as a coach in Shanghai, what kind of person would I be?
Remember: Looking back, why did you change the head coach and replace Du Feng's guidance less than a year before the Olympic qualifying tournament?
Yao: It was a difficult decision, but it was also due to objective conditions.
Q: What kind of objective conditions?
Yao: The head coach of the national team must be full-time. And we respect Du's choice here.
Q: When does Djordjevic's contract expire? Is it convenient to disclose?
Yao: By the end of this year, if I remember correctly. What we asked was that he couldn't come alone, that he had to bring a small team and that we would equip him with the Chinese coaching staff. This is a clear requirement for us, because we see Qiao Shuai as a bridge to connect the world. The previous teams coached by Du and Li Nan had international coaches, and we hope to have such an international team to help us reach out to the world faster and better. We know the pace of progress in the whole world of basketball and the pace of our progress, we can't keep up right now. So we will evaluate these things carefully (on Djordjevic's evaluation), but we have to stick to the international line.
After the 2019 World Cup, you said you had to take responsibility for the loss. Later, some media predecessors said that they did not see the in-depth reflection and summary of the Chinese Basketball association in the next few years. What do you think about this?
Yao: From 2019 to now, our contact with the international community and even with the society has decreased. Indeed, as the elder said, we do very little. I'll give you a figure, just for the U-Series (junior) events, we save almost $30 million a year, which is not a good thing, because we couldn't run the games, and this year we fully recovered. Another data, we just counted the U21, U19, U17 and U15 games before the Asian Games, about 500 games. In 45 percent of the games, the margin of victory was more than 21 points, and in 11 percent of the games, the margin of victory was within five points.
Reporter: Lack of competition?
Yao: It takes a process to recover it. Indeed, as the old man said, what we can do is very limited, and we need to speed up.
Reporter: What do you think are the most important factors for the Chinese men's basketball team to miss the Olympic Games for two consecutive times?
Yao: The first is the change of the competition system, so we need to make a systematic change, including the setup of the league.
Including the fact that we're dealing with a different team now, right? And then naturalizing the players, we are actually facing certain limitations on this side, and sometimes we have to consider a level of acceptance in our culture. I think we are actually very lucky to have a player like Li Kyle who is so motivated to join the Chinese men's basketball team...
I think in every link, if it is simply the national team, the league, the youth training - when I say youth training, I actually include the integration of sports and education - we must fully consider international exchanges in every link.
Q: As the president of the Chinese Basketball Association, what responsibilities do you need to assume?
Yao: There are two ways I can take responsibility. The first is to accept the responsibility of the past, resign and go home, Shanghai is quite close to here anyway. The second way to take responsibility is to accumulate these things, analyze them, and design a plan of action for the next step. I can live with either way.
Reporter: Can China's men's basketball team enter the 2028 Olympics? How to make a change?
Yao: We can't dismiss the possibility of the 2028 Olympics, but it's a difficult road. We're gonna do a major operation, and it's not gonna take a little tinkering. From the composition of the national team, from the reform of the league, from the entire youth training including internationalization, including the integration of sports and education, this is a major operation covering the whole basketball society, not only a question of who we choose to be the coach, how we go to provide a better guarantee mechanism for the national team, or what kind of so-called basketball style we create. It is a concrete and systematic transformation. Since our research has just begun, I am reluctant to jump to conclusions about what we should do.
Q: Is the challenge of being the president of the Chinese Basketball Association different from what you expected?
Yao: There's a big difference. It has been a very rich experience for me, and I am very grateful that it has given me such an opportunity to touch such a level over the past few years. It turned out that I may only be from a one-sided - whether it is the athlete or the club's point of view - to see, just with a cavity of blood rushed in, but really feel that a lot of things it needs to be more rational to think. Some things have been done, but it's more about the kinds of losses that you see... There are reasons here, these reasons I want to seriously summarize it, how can we make our social mobilization ability, centripetal force become stronger, this is what I need to think about.
Reporter: The Chinese women's basketball team successfully defended its title. How to continue this momentum and better prepare for the Paris Olympics next year?
Yao: Women's basketball is under a lot of pressure. That's the thing about competitive sports, when you keep winning, the pressure builds up, people expect you to win more and the expectations are higher and higher. At this point, you have to take care of more and more things, and you can't take care of things, and a small crack can cause the whole dam to break. Many of the problems on the court will actually be reflected in advance off the court. From an association management perspective, our job is to keep hammering away and seeing where the signs are and hopefully preventing them.
But just using the mentality of prevention I think is not enough, because competitive sports from the results of the national team, you have to move forward, there is only one way. Even when you are in the lead, you are also forward, in fact, the lesson of men's basketball in this Asian Games has left us. When you stop rushing, you actually get caught up.
Reporter: Was that a big reason for the loss to the Philippines?
Yao: Yes. You think you sprint 100 meters, lead a lot of times, you think you can rely on a buffer speed to run ahead of the end, in fact, others catch up. This is actually a very profound lesson. But we should try our best to find such signs, prevent them in advance, and maintain an upward and forward state.
Reporter: In 2002 Busan Asian Games despite the loss of still spirited you, and now full of lawsuits you, which do you prefer?
Yao: It's totally different. You can't say what you like better. In fact, sometimes when things just happen, there must be a lot of pressure inside, how many will be. Maybe in my early 20s it took me a week to get better, now it takes me a day, but you can't deny that it's there.
The key is to get out there. In fact, you can think of any challenge you face, whether it is the management of the national team or the various problems facing the league, as the next O 'Neill coming at you with all his might.
Reporter: Do you still have confidence in the future of Chinese men's basketball and Chinese basketball as the president of the association?
Yao: Our confidence will come from our actions. Confidence does not exist, I can easily shout a slogan: I have confidence. But the key is what do we do? Can our research report come up with something we can all agree on? An executable thing? This will give me confidence, and it will give you confidence, and I have no way to answer this question before.
重点词汇
新华社 the Xinhua News Agency
承担责任 responsible ; bear ; bear the responsibility ; respond
能接受 Acceptable ; yes
新华社记者 Xinhua News Agency reporter ; reporter of the Xinhua News Agency ; Xinhua correspondent
世界杯赛 World Cup tournament
第二次 second time
奥运会 the Olympic Games ; Olympiad
亚运会 the Asian Games
未能实现 fail to materialize ; die on the vice
以下简称 hereinafter referred to as
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